Stats

Okay, the big question.... Stats. Should we keep them or destroy them?

I say keep them. They can be abused at times, that's true, but without a certain guidelines to the power of the characters all havoc will reek and newbies will start punching whale sized holes into the ground and punching a whale over 9000 times etc. etc. I believe stats are very important to understanding a characters limits and abilities as well as it revolves around other things such as the amount of chakra one has. So I vote for stay. It's a bit late so I might have blabbered on a little bit and sorry if i was nonsensical. It's 2:23 am

Mr Cold wrote:

I say keep them. They can be abused at times, that's true, but without a certain guidelines to the power of the characters all havoc will reek and newbies will start punching whale sized holes into the ground and punching a whale over 9000 times etc. etc. I believe stats are very important to understanding a characters limits and abilities as well as it revolves around other things such as the amount of chakra one has. So I vote for stay. It's a bit late so I might have blabbered on a little bit and sorry if i was nonsensical. It's 2:23 am

+1. I'm personally a big fan of stats. I like having some free reign, and not being too restricted, yes, but I also believe you NEED some restriction. Stats are the main thing I feel needs to restrict you.

To be honest, stats are a decent portion of the reason I want to RP here, and refuse to RP on LR or Temp's new site. Simply put, I really don't enjoy RPing without them. xD

I'd have to say, going by customer demand here, destroy stats. I agree stats give a way of determining strength and stuff, but there are other ways to do that. LR determines strength with levels of taijutsu. Have no taijutsu level? Then you are basically a normal person who doesn't know how to fight close combat, to a certain extend. Have master taijutsu? Well congrats, you're now our local Gai, except you have more brains, we hope. There are infinite ways to make a system that determines strength and ability without actually using stats

There are other ways indeed. But the thing is stats are the things that work the best, and even thought it might be popular demand. It works and we are here to make the site better and work better not make it exactly as people wish it would be. This is a restriction and maybe some would call it a necessary evil. Stats determine the little difference between our characters and determine their uniqueness to a certain extent.

I like having a stat system, not only does it place limitations on people's abilities, but it's fun to raise your stats to become harder, better, faster stronger (yes I did that on purpose. lol). We keep stats.

^Because Jun did that. Now, whenever reading this topic, I require y'all to listen to this.

Also, total backing on Jun and Cold. I have nothing to add.

Alright... Then shall we edit the stat system to make it seem less restricting to those who don't want stats? And maybe even find a synonym for stats because people don't like the word alone?

Maybe call them Limits...


NO LIMIT BREAKERS!

People said it before I am going to say it again stats and Naruto don't work.

Question, before we discuss changes to stats-- what is it that bugs the people who don't like stats?

Personally, I love stats. As I said before, sites like LR and Temp's that do not have stats push me away quite a bit. With that said, though, I don't have the perspective of those who disagree with me(plus, I've been gone from RPing for a year), so I'm not sure what exactly y'all don't like.

Is it that they're actually restricting, and don't let you do what you want with your character, or is it that they allow some people to become too godly? Back when I was an admin on TNRPG, there was one main issue with stats. Sure, occasionally people complained when people tried to do godly things that their stats simply wouldn't let them do, but besides that, there was one main thing I remember: people were bitching about Shinji's crazy stats(I.E. maxed Agility) that made him seem impossible to beat.

So, what is the issue? If it's about people complaining that stats are too restrictive, could someone please give me an argument for it? I'd like to see one, and due to my long time away from RP, haven't really seen too many.

One thing I noticed while reading some of the threads is that the staff and players seem to be divided on whether or not to use stats. While I can see the pros and cons of having or not having stats the main problem seems to be that there is no direct correlation to how high your stats are and how effective your character is in relation to the game. The point I want to make is rather than just having stats make them useable, functional, and practical. I would suggest bonuses awarded to certain aspects of a character in relation to the stat as well as have a penalties for neglecting certain stats. (ex. with high strength and speed stat taijutsu may require less effort to train and may even be more effective due to the fact the character already has a lot of natural abilities. ex.2 with higher intelligence comes the benefit of a faster training rate for some of the more complex and higher rank jutsu. ex.3 if intelligence is only 20% as high as a character's strength stat they become classified as a jock, meathead, caveman, etc. thus keeping them from learning higher level jutsu despite the fact that they may have a high 'ninjutsu skill' their lack of intelligence keeps them from understanding the intricacies of complex jutsu.) side note if two player characters are fighting the one with the higher speed stat may beable to attack first or even change a jutsu mid combat if the speed is significantly higher than the competitor.

This is from our newest member, Kes.

As much as I like the idea of added bonuses I have to point out the fact that this will just increase the godly factor and just make it faster and easier to become a naruto rpg term God. Current XP system and training system makes it harder to level up your skills and etc. as you go further and earn more XP this would completely contradict that and make it easier to do. I must say I don't mind reworking the stat system, when it comes to removing a well integrated system that basicly revolves everything on the site around it, I would give that a resounding no.
How ever that is only my opinnion on the matter.
I just woke up. I can barely see what I'm typing excuse my nonsensicality. (that's a thing from now on.)

On the topic of stats, I'd like to throw out the system I drafted in Parli, for anyone who can't see/didn't see/forgot.

Keiri_Okami wrote:

What does everyone think about raising the higher-end classifications for stat levels? As it is now, it's much too easy to become near god-like in a stat. Allow me to use Stamina as an example:

Quote :

1 – 10: The individual is debilitated or severely handicapped in this attribute.
11 – 20: The individual is below average in this attribute.
21 – 30: The individual is average in this attribute.
31 – 40: The individual is above average in this attribute
41 – 50: The individual is comparable to Pre-Shippuden Sasuke stamina
51 – 60: The individual is comparable to Kakashi's stamina
61 – 70: The individual is comparable to Pre-Shippuden Naruto stamina
71 – 80: The individual is comparable to Shippuden Kakashi's stamina
81 – 90: The individual is comparable to Kisame's stamina
91 – 100: The individual is comparable to shippuden Naruto’s stamina, with access to Kyuubi chakra.
101-200: You are a God in this stat (101+ is only achievable through boosts from Skills and SA's. You can't train to get to 200. Training stops at 100)

As it is, you can start with 50 Stamina, and with a Ninjutsu Mastery, you gain +30 Stamina for Ninjutsu. Now, that's already one point away from Kisame's chakra, who was known as a tail-less tailed beast in terms of chakra. You can also add in the fact that several clans give bonuses(I think the Shinetsu and Sabaku give +30 Stamina, Cursed Ones give +10, etc.)

You can almost be/actually be a god in a stat straight from the start. What do you guys say to extending the classifications a bit. I'll take Agility for an example.

Our Current Set-up

Quote :

1 – 10: The individual is debilitated or severely handicapped in this attribute.
11 – 20: The individual is below average in this attribute.
21 – 30: The individual is average in this attribute.
31 – 40: The individual is above average in this attribute
41 – 50: The individual is comparable to Haku's agility
51 – 60: The individual is comparable to Sasuke Uchiha's agility
61 – 70: The individual is comparable to Kakashi's agility
71 – 80: The individual is comparable to the 4th Raikage's agility
81 – 90: The individual is comparable to Minato's agility
91 – 100: The individual is comparable to the 4th Raikage with LRA agility
101-200: You are a God in this stat (101+ is only achievable through boosts from Skills and SA's. You can't train to get to 200. Training stops at 100)

A Model for a New Set-up

Quote :

1 – 10: The individual is debilitated or severely handicapped in this attribute.
11 – 20: The individual is below average in this attribute.
21 – 30: The individual is average in this attribute.
31 – 40: The individual is above average in this attribute
41 – 50: The individual is comparable to Haku's agility
51 – 60: The individual is comparable to Sasuke Uchiha's agility
61 – 80: The individual is comparable to Kakashi's agility
81 – 110: The individual is comparable to the 4th Raikage's agility
111 – 160: The individual is comparable to Minato's agility
161 – 199: The individual is comparable to the 4th Raikage with LRA agility
200: You are a God in this stat
(101+ is only achievable through boosts from Skills and SA's. You can't train to get to 200. Training stops at 100)

Now, those numbers are nothing exact. I just pulled numbers out of my ass for the example. We could either extend the higher-end categories to be more than just 10 points(which I did above), or we could even add more comparisons in(although, the former sounds easier). A system like this would eliminate people becoming Godly so easily. Plus, it'd fill in that empty space we have(I personally don't like going by increments of 10 up to 100, then just leaving 100-200 as an entire space for God-tier).

Thoughts?

Proposal by Kishin

On stats, I think we should keep current system. I don't see anything really wrong with it. That and it would save a lot of work that has already been done.

But if a change is really really wanted.....

I actually had thought up a new system for stats when you guys mentioned it to be gone or changed, some time about a week ago and was about to pm them to you but my comp died and I lost the email...and didn't want to retype the example mostly. But since you guys are talking about it now...It is a simple system.

It is based on the naruto stats of characters already in existence from data books, minus ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu. Though, with our 0-50 system for these, it kind of fits the 0-5.0 system they use.


Example:

Hitana-9 -Academy/Fresh Genin
int 2.5
str 1
spd 2
sta 1.5
dex 2

Garra-13 -Genin/Older Genin
int 2.5
str 1
spd 2
sta 4
dex 3.5

Haku - Chuunin -15.5
Int 4
Str 1.5
Spd 4
Sta 2
Seals (dex) 4

Zabuza- 19 -Jounin
int 3
str 4
spd 4
sta 4
dex 4


Hatake Kakashi- 20 -Jounin ANBU(ex)
int 4.5
str 3.5
spd 4
sta 3
dex 5

The 3rd Hokage - 19 -Kage (old age)
int 5
str 3
spd 3
sta 3
dex 5

Jiraiya - 23 - Kage/Sanin
Int 4.5
Str 4.5
spd 4.5
sta 5
dex 4.5



Proposed: Get stats at rank-up, can distribute points to any stat at 0.1 minimum. Jutsu then augment to cause an affect.

Basic Stats:
Academy Student - 9
Genin - 13 (+4)
Chuunin - 16 (+3)
*ANBU Chuunin- 17 (+1)
Jounin - 19 (+3)
*Jounin ANBU - 20 (+1)
Kage - 21 or 22 (+2 or +3)



Now it is asked, how does someone like Sakura, punch a hold into the ground?
(Must remember, sakura punching hole into ground isn't str, but str augment with chakra)

Augments with chakra? How to use? Multiplier would be my suggestion. This would allow differences in even a 0.5 to have a decent difference with same technique.

Ex 1. In the case of sakura (str 3), she augments it by 10 (30 str)for an example. So Naruto (str 3.5) is stronger then Sakura, but she augments her str to get the devastating hits.

Ex 2. Another example, and now suggestion for basic augments for Combat Skills. Zabuza is able to use a sword, which most can't pick up.
I think it is even stated that it took 5 men to lift his sword to take it to the gang hideout. It is stated by Tsunada that chakra is used all the time to increase the abilities ninja use, even for basic tasks, it is in fact used without thinking.
This would show Zabuza is probably as strong as any normal human, but augmenting his strength by 5X with chakra allows him to pick up his sword. But this would cause someone, Even Kakashi, to be unable to pick up his sword for battle use.

This would also show what learning how to augment to an even greater amount, in case of Sakura, would allow. And you could even compare Sakura, to Tsunada (str 5) for the same technique, of which Tsunada is stronger as stated by Sakura.



?Unknowns?
Chakra amount: Um...GL? We were unsure about having a set allotment at one point with stamina, but decided that perhaps it was best? Would say each point = 250X and keep current system?


Augmentation basics can be decided upon by the level of experience in Combat Styles perhaps. If an ability has two, the first is strongest, the second is weaker.

Tai would cause Dex.
Buki would cause strength and dex.
Nin would cause dex and sta.
Gen would cause sta.
Medical would cause Sta and dex.
Puppet would cause Dex and Sta.
Fuuin would cause agility.




By how much? Well, depends.
In case of sta, just increase the amount of chakra per point or take the 250 and multiply it by a small number. If augment is 5X, then say it is .5X, so now each point is 300 chakra, instead of 375. Or we can say it is a reduction to costs, so 5X is now 50% cost.

For all others, suggestion of 1.5X per rank in style division sounds fair to me. So, for instance Buki: 1 point to Str, 0.5X to Dex for each rank. This multiply could be used on the SkP treating it as a 0-5.0 base. So 1 SkP = 0.1, which would be 1.15X increase to Str, 1.05X increase to Dex AT ALL TIMES WHEN FIGHTING!!This would be listed on the Combat Skill. This would also take care of the when do these augments happen portion.

These would be without use of chakra to get the basics of what they could do.


Then we have Advance augments in the form of jutsu. These would just combine with other augments if it does change a stat, and would cause chakra loss.

I find the smaller stats to have more "sameness" among the characters. I think that augmenting stats with chakra is needlessly complicated. I'm not trying to say both these ideas suck and are stupid, but just that I find flaws with them I can't really look past. Willing to go on with discussion on them, though, should an answer be found that makes it palatable.

That said, I think our current system is fine. I don't think there is anything wrong with it.

For those who believe LR's system is superior, negative. As far as I can tell, the top characters there are Medical/Fuuin/Taijutsu/Gates users, probably with some Ninjutsu in there somewhere. Their Fighting Style things determining their stats made it so that some are just more valuable than others, especially with their Stamina guide as strange and broken as it is, and the inability to have superhuman ability without a strong focus in Taijutsu or Weaponry just makes no sense to me. There are plenty of people in much better shape than me that do not know how to fight. Sprinters sprint, and are very fast, that doesn't mean they know how to kick your ass. Powerlifters lift, and are very strong, that doesn't mean they know how to kick your ass. Determining natural ability by combat focus is silly, to me.